An interview with The Tubs

Frontman Owen "O" Williams discusses his music's powerful effect on 40something males, working with energy vampires, singing in chipmunk voices and Welsh accents, and playing Celtic music.

Full disclosure: The Tubs weren’t a band that I fell in love with at first listen. It took me a few attempts to get into their new album, Cotton Crown, before things clicked. Once it did I couldn’t stop. And putting in the work made listening to The Tubs that much more rewarding. Because lately I’ve found it a little too easy to just write off and disregard music that I don’t immediately connect with.

In discovering The Tubs, I was reminded of a great band from Cardiff I really liked a while back called Joanna Gruesome. Led by Lan McArdle and Owen “O” Williams, they made C86-style indie pop that was loud, noisy as hell and fun as fuck. At the time, it felt like a shame they didn’t last (they officially broke up in 2017 after two albums), but now I’m grateful they packed it in. After both relocating to London, McArdle and Williams would return a year later with a new and even better band called Ex-Vöid that - according to them - was focused more on “making classic guitar pop such as Big Star and Teenage Fanclub and attacking it with the ferocity and economy of a hardcore punk band.”

The two would also co-found a collective of musician friends called Gob Nation, where each and everyone would contribute to any project going, including The Tubs, a jangly outfit with nods to Felt, The Smiths and R.E.M. that Williams formed with George Nicholls (also of Joanna Gruesome). Both Ex-Vöid and The Tubs were slow out of the gate, but the former eventually released their debut album, Bigger Than Before, in 2022, with the latter following that up with Dead Meat in 2023.

While his vocals were often secondary to McArdle’s in his other bands, Williams takes centre stage in The Tubs. With a voice that resembles both Richard Thompson and Bob Mould, his self-confessional, self-effacing and self-humiliating lyrics offered something new and refreshing to indie rock. Their latest album, Cotton Crown, features a collection of thoughts Williams was planning to use for a novel he was writing to grieve the loss of his mother, folk singer Charlotte Greig, who died in 2014 of suicide. Additionally, he paid tribute to his mom by using a photo of her breastfeeding him as a baby on the album cover.

So far, 2025 has been bustling for Williams. On top of promoting Cotton Crown, he has also been working the second Ex-Vöid album, In Love Again, which only dropped in January. Oh, and he’s also currently recording the next Tubs album. But before we hear any of that he and The Tubs will be touring North America in May and June on an incredible double bill with indie pop lifers The Wedding Present.

So you also have a Substack! And it’s called Tubstack, which is such a great name for it. What do you use yours for?

Owen “O” Williams: Well, despite the name, it's not very Tubs-related generally. I mean, I post the odd update there, but I suppose it's basically just an outlet for me to say some music criticism, a bit of memoir I suppose. I don't actually find writing about music that interesting personally, but I kind of like writing prose. I'm basically known as a musician, so I tend to use it as a way of shoe-horning in my interests outside of music.

In one post you documented your recent UK/EU tour and noted that the audience was about 98% male and mostly over 45… which makes me feel seen. Why do you think the band struggles to find non-male fans?

I guess I'm not entirely sure if that's the case in North America. I feel like maybe we skew a tiny a bit younger there. But it's a difficult one because this is generally a trend, especially in the UK. I don't know if you've heard the term, but they tend to get called “6 Music dads,” which is a reference to BBC Radio 6. So it's a bit of a weird, cultural phenomenon across most indie bands. I think it's partly to do with ticket prices going up, more disposable income, and bands basically sounding like they're from the heydays of these guys’ youth, essentially. But I guess what I was alluding to in that post was that for us it seems like a particular problem. I don't really know to be honest.

I think a lot of the young people who like similar kinds of music to us are into this kind of weird, neo-prog music that’s been coming out a lot. I think it's partly to do with music schools and the death of DIY, and I've got like a whole post about this stuff I working on. But I think at the moment that's where the youth trend sort of lies, in these kind of weird, baroque bands, like Black Country New Road. And I think our kind of primitive, jangly, indie rock music at the moment probably only appeals to guys who are already fans of those bands, and millennials like me who were into that music. So that's my take. It might just be our raw, masculine energy or as I said, our sexual repellence.

We tend to just call it “dad rock” over here. It’s everything from classic rock to more seasoned indie rock, and yet Mac DeMarco is also part of it, and he is insanely popular with kids. I think you would find that The Tubbs could fall under dad rock here.

It probably doesn’t help that we’re touring with The Wedding Present.

Yeah, their audience is likely skewing more to the age of 55. Speaking of these types of fans, I feel like based on your description, someone who perfectly embodies a Tubs fan is Mark Proksch, who most people know as Colin Robinson from What We Do In The Shadows. How did you get him to appear in your video for “Round the Bend”?

So it was a bit random actually. It came through this guy Scott Jacobson, who is a writer for Bob's Burgers. He is a fan and he directed some videos for Merge Records and Dinosaur Jr. and stuff. We noticed that he had quite a few celebrity cameos in his videos, including [Henry] Rollins in one of them. And we were like, “Could you get Rollins to be in our video?” And I think he tried to get Rollins to do it, then but he was away touring or something. So then he said he would ask around if any of his friends would be up for it, and told us Mark Proksch would be interested, which was completely out of the blue for us. But I'm a big fan of his, especially his On Cinema stuff. We were just sort of bewildered really, but definitely happy with the result.

Have you watched What We Do In The Shadows?

Yeah, I watched the first season and really liked it. So yeah, it's one of those things where it just felt so random. It's not like we said, “We've got to get Colin Robinson in the video.” It was just like, “Oh, he's in it? Okay, cool!”

Colin Robinson is an energy vampire. Have you ever had an energy vampire in one of your bands?

[Laughs] Yes, although I don't want to put it on record. Let's just say yes. But I think it would be quite easy to deduce who I'm talking about for anyone who knows us.

Another thing you pointed out in that post is that German and Dutch people dislike the Tubs. Why do you think that is?

I don't know. One thing I do know about the Dutch, and maybe the Germans as well, is that they're very blunt and comfortable with just openly criticizing you. So it could just be that we've had more bad reviews or open criticism from them because that's how they speak. Or they're more likely to say that rather than just think it, you know. But in terms of the national psyche of them, I don’t really know.

A friend of mine has told me that German fans are always brutally honest and hyper critical of his band when they tour over there.

There's a funny joke that lots of people tell, where I think it's more about the Dutch but it's the same principle, and they'll be like, [in Dutch accent] “That was not a very good show. I'll take, uh, three T-shirts and a vinyl.” They’ll just tell you if they preferred you before. But we don't get many shows over there. I think we've just got a new German agent so maybe I can go and test these theories.

I was bummed when Joanna Gruesome broke up, but it was cool to see you come back with Lan in Ex-Vöid and then start The Tubs with George, Matthew and Steve. Is it just easier to form bands with friends and people you trust?

Yeah, on a kind of social level it's good to have known quantities in the band with you and people you actually like. But we've got this little collective called Gob Nation, which is basically just the musicians left from the DIY scene or the people in bands when they were younger who are still plowing on. And at this point we're tight and basically collaborate with each other because there’s not many people left. Or maybe we’ve lost touch with other musicians outside of that circle, but it does seem like it's partly down to the DIY scene being kind of diminished.

So did Gob Nation start in Wales or when you moved to London?

There is a big Welsh contingent from the Joanna Gruesome days, like Max who runs Gob Nation was the bassist in Joanna Newsome. George, who was is in The Tubs, is also from Cardiff. So there is a small Cardiff crew. But yeah, it’s basically a random selection of people that we met when we were younger, from touring in England or Scotland. And over time people have gravitated to London, so now we’ve got a big Celtic showing. There are people from all over the country.

It’s interesting to hear you use the word “Celtic,” which I see mentioned a lot when it comes to The Tubs’ sound. Here in Canada, that word has a very specific meaning when it comes to music, mostly to do with traditional folk music from countries like Scotland and Ireland. That style of music is almost exclusive to Canada’s East Coast provinces. I guess I’m just curious to learn how you define that word when it comes to using it for The Tubs.

To be honest, in a musical context, the way you would interpret it is pretty much how it is interpreted most of the time. We just use it in maybe a slightly jokey way, just because we've got a Scottish person and Welsh people in the band. I think when people have used it in relation to us, it's more a description of our nationality rather than a musical term. But we just use it because it's kind of funny to reference the slights of the English-Celtic divide, in a slightly tongue-in-cheek way. What is the east thing about?

A lot of the Scotland and Ireland settlers came over and populated Eastern provinces like Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and Labrador, Prince Edward Island and New Brunswick. And through their traditions came the Celtic music that I was talking about. Lots of fiddle, bagpipes and accordions.

Weirdly for me, I probably have more connections to English folk music. That was the kind of music mum made and she was English, and I suppose some people have picked up on folky, Richard Thompson-like twang to the band. I think that comes from that, because that ‘70s English folk is the kind of folk music I like. Whereas I don't really listen to Celtic folk. I mean, I guess I probably do because there is some crossover in the revival stuff. So ironically I'm probably more familiar with the English music.

I read a quote from you where you said what sets The Tubs apart from your other bands was that you really try to capture your Welsh accent when you are singing. Is that a natural thing for you to do or do you normally sing with a different accent?

I mean, it's confusing because despite being Welsh, I basically have an English accent. So most people think I'm English. But I used to sing in a kind of transatlantic way, which I would say most people do. But maybe recently in Britain people have been using their own accents more. I suppose it's fairly common to sing in a slightly North American kind of twang and that's how I used to sing. But I guess with The Tubs I got interested in trying to sing in my own accent and that does change the tone of the voice and the way you pronounce syllables changes the melody. And so it made me realize that there isn't really a true accent when it comes to singing. I think it's always something of a performance.

Do you speak Welsh?

No. I learned a bit of it in school, but where I'm from in South Wales it's quite rare to speak Welsh.

I’m always curious and I think I blame that on bands like Super Furry Animals and Gorky’s Zygotic Mynci writing so many Welsh language songs. But I guess it’s no different from someone assuming I speak French.

As a fan of both Joanna Gruesome and Ex-Vöid, I love how you get Lan to back you up on Tubs songs. Was it her particular voice you were looking to add to those songs or did it have more to do with her being part of the Gob Nation?

I knew Lan's voice would suit it, but I was a bit worried about creating too much crossover between Ex-Vöid and The Tubs. Basically Lan is the best singer I know, and I think our voices work well together, so any time I'm writing a Tubs song and I want a higher octave I'll use my special chipmunk vocal or I'll use Lan depending on the feel of the song.

How did you come up with that chipmunk voice?

There is one on The Smiths’ “Big Mouth Strikes Again,” but it's weird because I wasn't originally using it in the Tubs. I had an autotune kind of project I was working on, and it’s more common in R&B and trap to use the high pitch thing. So I was using doing that and realized that I liked the technique because you can just create another octave without getting someone, usually a woman, to sing on it. And I just applied it to The Tubs.

You named the new album Cotton Crown, which is one of your mother’s songs but also the name of an alias you’ve used to release some songs that later become Tubs songs. What does that title mean to you?

Well, you’re nearly there, but it's also a Sonic Youth song. To make matters more confusing my mum used to play that song when she perform live. She used to do a folky cover of it live and it was sung at her funeral by some of her bandmates. And then I don't know, I suppose it was just a little nod towards her when I started the solo thing. Because the idea of the record cover came from how she used that image as a record sleeve, and so I guess I was trying to be contextual using her song title, which is actually a cover, and then the cover of our album being her cover. It's all a bit meta.

One of my favourite things about the album is the cover with that black and white image of you and your mother, and the old-timey border and typeface. Did you design the cover?

No, so that was done by a guy called Luke Simone, he's a French guy who drove us on tour. We originally knew about him because he made a poster for a Tubs show in quite a similar style and we really liked it and we got to know him. So we just got him to do the album cover. I provided the photo because my dad had it, but that stuff is like very Luke. We'll probably use him to design our merch and the next album cover.

You’ve discussed how The Tubs is an outlet for you to write from a very personal perspective and confront your OCD. You have a song about your mom, but on the first album you also sang about a rash on your groin. How often do you ask yourself, “Wait a minute… is this too personal to put out there?”

I actually tend to do the opposite. Sometimes there are certain lyrics where I invent more embarrassing situations than I've actually been in. Because I just find the confessional aspect of it to be fun. Trying to be self-mortifying is fun to me. I don't really find it embarrassing. To be honest, the song with my mum “Strange,” that felt a bit more like higher stakes, I suppose, because my family would see it, but at the same time I'm just drawn to that extreme kind of self-confessional writing.

Do you find that style writing is a form of therapy?

Yeah, I mean, it’s certainly related to something like OCD, but I would think of it more as a compulsion than a therapeutic thing, you know? I think with OCD, you get the compulsion to air your worst thoughts, and perhaps that does have a therapeutic result, but basically I think I partly do it out of a compulsion and partly do it because it's entertaining.

You’ve just wrapped up a UK tour playing in Ex-Vöid and next you’re coming over to North America with The Tubs. How hard is it to keep track of when you’re playing with which band? Is it hard to keep everything organized?

Well, I mean, this interview is case in point. [Ed - It took a couple of tries to make the interview happen.] But it does because the last time I was in a band that was doing well, I guess, was Joanna Gruesome and and I feel like since then, which was like ten years ago, there are a million more administrative things you have to do. Like I enjoy all of the press stuff and talking on podcasts, but it just seems like there are a million more things you have to do but also less money. So it does get quite hard to organize myself and keep on top of it all. Especially going to America, which is an absolute nightmare in terms of getting a visa.

Would you ever tour North America with The Tubs and Ex-Vöid? Or is that too much of a logistical shitshow?

The are pros and cons. Obviously if you can get everyone in a van then great, but sometimes you'd have to split the fees in a way that could be tricky. I mean normally we do entertain the idea because it's makes sense in a certain way to bring both bands. Especially now because our drummer is the same as well. If there was an incentive to do it in America then I'd be fine with it, but I think you'd probably look at as a financial loss. I don't think we'd play to a much bigger crowd just because it's Ex-Vöid and The Tubs.

Have the two bands ever played shows together in London?

Yeah, we have done, but now so much. I think we'd likely end up shooting ourselves in the foot. Because we can make more money doing one Ex-Vöid headline show and a Tubs headline show rather than the two bands playing the same show together. But we’ve got an all-day gig planned, which The Tubs are headlining and Ex-Vöid are also playing that.

Did I read this right that you’ve already started writing another Tubs album?

Yeah, so we’re actually recording it at the moment. We’ve got four tracks done. We’re getting this popular session fiddle player who is on all sorts of folk and country records. He lives in London and he’s coming in to play some fiddle.

Now that sounds Celtic to me!

Yeah, it will be a bit more Celtic. It won't just be a stupid joke. And we're talking to some labels. Hopefully one of the bigger ones will put it out.

So far it’s been Ex-Void album then a Tubs album. Are you messing up that routine or is there an Ex-Void album in the works too?

Yeah, well, Ex-Vöid doesn't have any new songs. I’m just writing Tubs songs quicker because I'm not relying on Lan.

Both bands put out albums in the first three months this year, with just two months in between. Was it hard to pull off playing gigs and doing press for two different albums and different bands around the same time?

Well, it was a bit of a mistake that this happened. It’s too boring to go into, but a few logistical problems happened, which meant both albums were ready at exactly the same time. And it's been quite tough because I've had maybe a week off between the Ex-Vöid and The Tubs tours. I'm pretty knackered and now I'm going to fucking North America.

When was the last time you played over here - was it with Joanna Gruesome or Porridge Radio?

I only ever played with Porridge Radio in Europe, so the last time I would have played over or even been there is 2015 or 2016, which was the last big Joanna Gruesome tour before we split up.

So you’re coming over with The Wedding Present. It seems like a perfect support slot for The Tubs. Would you say that band is an influence?

I've always liked them, but I've only ever known a few tunes really. They're definitely part of that history of band that we’re into. It was a bit random really because we were already in the process of sorting out a a U.S. tour and then our agent just kind of recommended it and now it's sort of changed the whole premise of the tour. But I'm excited to to see them play and meet them. I guess we are spending quite a lot of time with them. Again it’s a slightly unexpected turn of events. But we're going to return to North America in September for a headline tour.